Rubber VS Water

[b52g]

This following is a paragraph about how water and rubber contrast in the game.


Rubber should be included in the game.  Rubber is used for almost everything you do today (electronics, cars, shoes, furniture, and etc).  Rubber is the basis of the economy of many 3rd world countries.  Also, the Cold War map simply has many flaws for a truly "Modern World" scenario (population, roads [no such thing as an expressway or freeway back then], and even cities are missing from the CW map).  Rubber is a great option for the game.

Water is not really the best option for the game.  Most of the world has access to water (clean or not clean).  Also, water is very common in most countries due to cleaning plants and underground (well) water.  Water is basically included in the "infrastructure" spending button, and it does not appear in the game as a facility just like hospitals and police stations are.  Water should not be included in the game.

[Fistalis]

Just an update on this question. For now I've decided to go with the (updated SRU)2020 map.. which means I've gotta do a lot of changes to the map file.

As for Water vs Rubber.. The usage of the new map rules out water as a resource.. however whether or not to leave in rubber, remove it or replace it with a different resource (which would have to be purely synthetic... polymers for example) hasn't been decided yet.

Something that I don't think people realize is that if i leave rubber in... or replace it I have to start from square one on balancing the economy again. Part of the reason I wanted to leave water in was the economy was pretty well balanced and done in the mod.. any changes to resources requires me to readjust it.

Anyone who has followed this mod from the beginning should remember how long it took and how many versions I went through before getting it to this point (for those of you new to this mod the FIRST version was released in july of 2011 for SRCW). So having to balance the economy again from scratch really isn't near the top of my list for things I would like to do..

[suaske666]

can i also suggest something about the map? you should link crimea to the russian mainland politically (without the United Nations gap). The ukrainians don't have any military navy bases within the sea of azov anyway, and it's not like the russians would let anyone in. they have also planned to build a bridge across the strait of Kerch, so that's why i think it should be linked politically.

[Fistalis]

Jan 17, 2015 13:00:25 GMT -6 suaske666 said:

can i also suggest something about the map? you should link crimea to the russian mainland politically (without the United Nations gap). The ukrainians don't have any military navy bases within the sea of azov anyway, and it's not like the russians would let anyone in. they have also planned to build a bridge across the strait of Kerch, so that's why i think it should be linked politically.

I can't recall if Transfering UN controlled hexes is possible (pretty sure it was but haven't tested in SRU).. but I'll get back to you on this the next time I work on the mod.

I'm still working on getting everything in the files to work with SRU at this point.. with some rebel faction not properly becoming independent and alive.. some Meshes not showing up etc etc.

While BG (george) does what he can to maintain compatibility of mods between the versions some things do get changed and with as many versions of SR that this mod has gone through I'm surprised more isn't broke. In some instances I've used events in ways that George never evisioned so what he sees as an unrelated tweak to something breaks something for me etc etc.

It's all fixable but it takes time.

[Jimmyflow]

Jan 3, 2015 11:22:48 GMT -6 b52g said:

This following is a paragraph about how water and rubber contrast in the game.


Rubber should be included in the game.  Rubber is used for almost everything you do today (electronics, cars, shoes, furniture, and etc).  Rubber is the basis of the economy of many 3rd world countries.  Also, the Cold War map simply has many flaws for a truly "Modern World" scenario (population, roads [no such thing as an expressway or freeway back then], and even cities are missing from the CW map).  Rubber is a great option for the game.

Water is not really the best option for the game.  Most of the world has access to water (clean or not clean).  Also, water is very common in most countries due to cleaning plants and underground (well) water.  Water is basically included in the "infrastructure" spending button, and it does not appear in the game as a facility just like hospitals and police stations are.  Water should not be included in the game.

Hello b52g,


I disagree with your water vs rubber argument and here's why:


Rubber is a consumer and industry good for many of the reasons you stated. It is a natural resource, although has to be processed into usable material. So based on that, its technically not a 'raw' resource. No one ever fights war over rubber and technology plays a significant role in its use and availability. For example, I know for a fact there's a company in Canada (can't remember name) that makes rubber used in Bridgestone tires and was apparently instrumental in the Allies winning WWII (little known fact). Rubber was so important from a consumer/industrial good standpoint that it was a critical supply piece in the Allies' push through Northern Africa. If anything, it was a strategic 'processed' resource. Currently, Thailand is one of the world's largest producers of the resource used in rubber - although synthetic is the predominant material used in tires and many other things we use day-to-day. In addition, competing markets in Russia, Singapore, and a few other places make inferior rubber to that of the company in Canada. Inferior to a degree, but significantly cheaper. Still, no one fights wars over rubber due to its current world availability and because its not thought of as a critical resource.

Water, on the other hand is actually in very limited supply. Clean or dirty, its not as common as you might think and is a very very strategic resource. You did mention wells and cleaning plants; however, neither have as significant impact (or have a different impact) than you might think. While it is true that water is an infrastructure piece – the same can be said about any of the other raw resources used in SR games. Think about the cause and effect (ex. Agriculture  pollution). Water is used for everything, including agriculture, hydro-power, hygiene, manufacturing, etc. (most importantly it is consumed). However, hen water is scarce, the effects are severe (ex. California & Africa droughts…). More wars are fought over water than ever will be fought over rubber. If it were more common as you stated, than the Sahara desert would be green because nations would have the capability to efficiently desalinate salt water for use in the desert.

In my mind, water is a critical resource. While rubber is more the ‘underdog’ of resources. I see it more viable to include water as a resource to ‘fight over’ than rubber as rubber can simply be included as a consumer and/or industrial component. When I recently began SR:U, I was surprised to see rubber replace water. It made little since from a SR standpoint.


Thank you
-J